UA-45667900-1

Tuesday 25 August 2020

Navigating "Medical" Approaches to Treating Autism





One doctor/autism parent recently mentioned to me that readers need to be made aware that drug interventions for autism can take time to show effect and that since parents see their child every day, they may not notice such gradual changes and potentially throw away a drug that actually is effective in their case.  This is indeed true.

On the other hand, as noted in their critique of Vitamin B6 use in autism, the Lurie Center for Autism at Massachusetts General for Children advised:


“It is difficult to track improvement or decline in children with autism because many have cycles of better, then worse, behavior, and many are also involved in more than one therapy that may change while the child is on supplements …
In our experience, although parents may see a change (positive or negative) in the short term, few continue to give megadose vitamin B6 to their children because of the difficulty in teasing out whether or not it really makes a difference and because of the activation and irritability seen in long term treatment.”


Some parents do not value small improvements, but if you combine five therapies, each with small improvements, the net effect can be substantial.

Some interventions have no side effects, unlike many B vitamins, and so it is just a question of whether there is a genuine benefit that is sustained.  If you stop the therapy, is the effect lost? albeit possibly gradually, and does the same benefit return when you restart the therapy?

As the child gets older, does the therapy continue to have value?  I recall being asked by Dr Ben Ari, how do I know after 8 years my son still benefits from Bumetanide? Every now and again we make a pause from Bumetanide and see how he responds.  How would you measure the response?  I use how good my son is at his online math tutoring program as an objective measure of cognitive status. I also ask him in the afternoon what he had for lunch that day; without bumetanide he usually cannot answer.

Another doctor who was treating his son with bumetanide and also low dose clonazepam for some years, told me that he ran out of clonazepam and decided to see if it still provided a benefit.  He concluded that clonazepam was no longer needed.  It is important to check; there is no point using a drug just for the sake of it.

Some people find a positive effect is lost and they need to readjust their dosage.  This seems quite common with sulforaphane.

As some readers have found, interactions between drugs and supplements mean that dosages may need to be adjusted. Low-dose clonazepam in particular has only a very narrow effective dosage range. Very many drugs, including verapamil, reduce the excretion rate of clonazepam and so increase the level in your blood. Vitamin E increases the metabolism of clonazepam.

An even more fundamental issue is whose interventions should you consider and where is line between potentially helpful therapies and crank therapies.

I am surprised how different clinicians react to other people’s therapies. For example, one US neurologist when introduced to the idea of potassium bromide as a therapy for autism and indeed pediatric epilepsy thought the idea was very interesting and lamented not being able to try it, while another US neurologist’s immediate reaction was “call child protective services”.  Both neurologists are well known autism doctors.






There are many widely shared approaches to treating autism, some are dietary like the gluten and casein free diet, the ketogenic diet or the popular GAPS diet; some use dietary supplements like fish oil and vitamins.  All approaches have their committed followers.

Most medical doctors are critical of any therapy claiming to treat autism; the few progressive mainstream doctors who do attempt to treat autism can be very disparaging about the methods used by others.  Of course, the most open-minded medical doctors are the ones successfully treating their own child's autism.

Some “protocols” that are put forward are presented as treating a very wide range of conditions (chronic pain, Alzheimer’s etc), far beyond just autism and this does naturally raise suspicions, but some conditions with very different symptoms can share similar underlying biology.

Mainstream medicine is by its very nature extremely conservative, cautious and slow moving.  Different countries may practice very different mainstream therapies and some techniques take 20 years to become adopted from one continent to another.  There is no single mainstream, it varies.

Progressive mainstream medicine gradually pushes the boundaries. In the world of autism such practitioners are mainly in the United States and surprisingly in Italy.

Science driven autism therapy stretches beyond progressive mainstream medicine. It takes many years for ideas in the scientific research to become part of medicine.  If you do not have a couple of decades to wait, you can choose to look at the science and identify what might eventually become medicine.

Applying an open mind to what might seem far-fetched alternative therapies can reveal alternative modes of action which are very much science based. Dr Yu has therapies for autism based on treating parasites.  It turns out that some anti-parasite drugs like Ivermectin and Suramin have modes of action that really should benefit some types of autism, but have nothing to do with parasites. 

If someone finds their Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA) chelation therapy beneficial, this is not a surprise because ALA is an antioxidant widely used in medicine to treat diabetes and will benefit those with oxidative stress (autism, mitochondrial disease, cardiovascular disease etc).  It might have nothing to do with chelating metals from your brain. 

The DAN! (Defeat Autism Now) protocol was very popular and many people in the US still have a “DAN Doctor” who is applying the ideas of Sidney Baker, Jon Pangborn and others.  These are so-called biomedical therapies and mainly use dietary supplements rather than prescription drugs.  Defeat Autism Now!, closed down in 2011, was a project of the Autism Research Institute (ARI).

In North America there are doctors of functional medicine, integrative medicine, holistic medicine. There are naturopaths, homeopaths, doctors of Osteopathic Medicine (look for the DO after the name and not MD) and doctors of chiropractic medicine (DC after their name).

What is clear is that most autism parents prefer the idea of special diets, supplements and the simple protocols like that promoted by Nemechek, which are often claimed to work for everyone. 

I do not think many turn to Dr Chez and his book on medically managing autism; he does not claim to offer a simple answer and that is what parents want. 

I am amazed how popular Nemechek is and that people have even informally translated his book into different languages and then it gets shared virally.  It is like the new DAN! Protocol. I should note that his ideas do indeed work for some people.

You would think that having a doctor of medicine (MD) is best, but then nothing much about autism is taught at medical school.  Nemechek is a DO, not an MD.

I would have thought a clever neurologist like Dr Chez would be best, but I take note that many people have found an open-minded psychiatrist, who helps them trial off-label therapies, is best. This seems to be particularly true of adults with mild autism / Asperger’s.

There is no one-stop-shop for treating autism, no matter how big your budget is.  You have to navigate your own path, rather than just hoping for the best.  If you rule out off-label drugs, you are ruling out many potent therapies; it is rather like the "warrior" going into battle wearing a blindfold or having their hands tied behind their back.  The result likely could have been better.







28 comments:

  1. Hi Peter

    I’ve been following your blog for a few weeks now, just got a quick question, sorry if it’s been mentioned before it’s all new to me, but would like to be armed with some knowledge first.

    I believe you live in the UK like myself, so you have to deal with heavily regulated GP`s and the monolithic top down NHS.

    So how do you go about requesting something like bumetanide? Is it a simple matter of visiting your GP, requesting it while reminding them about the European Medicines Agency and one`s rights to off-label use?

    Did you ever get rejected? & have to go to another GP? Did you have to provide evidence each time for each drug?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ross, I left the UK many years ago, but I come from a family where most people work(ed) for the NHS.

      Even doctors in the UK cannot access drugs like bumetanide for their child. The UK is the medical equivalent of North Korea. There is only one way, the approved way, and there are no exceptions. Even seeing a doctor privately may not help, unless you call autism "autoimmune encephalopathy", which would be OK to treat with drugs. People in the UK do use online pharmacies abroad.

      People from the UK go to see doctors in the US, Italy and even Israel. Some go to see our reader Agnieszka in Gdansk, Poland.

      Even if you live in California, and have a big budget, it is not easy to treat autism medically.

      Delete
  2. Dear Ross, the UK are probably one of the worst countries to live in if you want to treat autism. I live in Serbia and we love the UK and would be able to move there but we can’t because of the lack of medical freedom there. I would proceed with caution and not even mention to anyone there that you are considering treating autism. We have used dr Antonucci in Italy who is quite a one stop shop though you should know that he is heavily biased towards IV chelation. If you just stubbornly refuse that, he will have tons of options for you and his prescriptions are valid in both Italy and an international pharmacy he is affiliated with. I believe he is pricewise affordable, as autism treatments go. There is also Agnieszka as Peter mentioned. Spending your energy with a local doctor who doesn’t know a thing is a loss of the least renewable resource you have - you energy, and also time, which is of the essence.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi tpes,

      I hope you don't mind me asking you a quick question regarding how things work in Serbia when it comes to ASD, prescriptions, buying over the counter, etc.

      To provide a bit of a background, I am the parent of a 6.5yo ASD boy. We reside in the USA and have been at it for 3.5 years now. Originally I am from Bulgaria however, and am seriously considering moving back there for a more expended period of time to see how the environment will affect my boy...
      So with that being said, when over there (in Serbia, but also in neighboring countries if you have any knowledge on that) can you buy Bumetanide, Atorvastatin, Clonazepam, Potassium Bromide, etc. over the counter in a local pharmacy? Do you need a prescription from a local doctor for some? What do they cost? I consider myself very adept in what one can do in USA when it comes to ASD, but am not sure if one can approach it in the same manner in Eastern Europe. In general, how do you go about treating ASD in that region of the world?

      Once again, apologies if it's not OK to approach you with such questions, or if I am overtaking this thread for my own purposes.

      Thanks in advance,
      Todor

      Delete
    2. Treating autism in Serbia has the advantage that its comparatively cheap and simple for people who can read blogs sich as this. Even speech therapists are very cheap compared to someplace more west, but there are only a handful good ones - which is more of a personality problem and less a problem of education. of the medications listed, I don’t know about potassium bromide, but all the rest would set you back altogether about 20 EUR if you bought one box of each. We have also a lot of eastern european type of help groups - like a fb group where truck drivers buy medications/supplements available in the west or Russia and bring them to families here. You can also get a prescription from doctors for medications that you need from international pharmacies. Of the stuff you asked about, I think clonozepam is the only that requires a prescription but our pharmacies are openminded. I don’t know about Bulgaria. If you were to come to Serbia specifically, I can list some local resources for you like therapists, playgroups, schools, fb groups etc.

      Delete
    3. Thanks for the quick reply, tpes.

      At the moment I am specifically looking at relocating my family to Bulgaria, since we are already established there and are from a small town where I hope the cleaner environment will positively affect my son's condition.

      With that being said, I asked about your perspective to try and get a gauge of things based on association/regional similarities. I was also considering crossing the border if needed and drive up to one of the bordering cities in Serbia/Macedonia and visit a local pharmacy to stock up on certain medications, if they prove to be hard to get in Bulgaria. So far, I am getting mixed reports from my family there, but they are kind of inexperienced when it comes to anything Autism, so the information I am getting is not conclusive...
      You are bringing up some very good points though, which is why I decided to direct my queries at you, such as local fb groups, the truck driver option, the therapists and play groups. These are all solid leads that I didn't think of before. I doubt I will get any therapist where we will be residing (Sandanski), as it is a small town in the province. This is not of great concern to me at the moment though, as to me these interventions are pointless if the health/mental state of the patient is not at a certain level. I will definitely join the national fb groups and do some research in there for more details about the national ASD circuit.
      I still find it invaluable to get the advice and opinions of experienced ASD parents from Europe in general, so thanks again for your input! I may be crossing borders for different treatments (FTM, Stem Cells, etc.) in there, so awareness of how things work within European countires is relevant to me.
      I hope you don't mind me pestering you with these questions. I can probably return the favor if you need to know about how things stand in USA, or therapies/doctors/meds over here I have dealt with, or ones that can be applied globally...

      I will keep it at that right now, but am definitely interested in gaining/exchanging more information if you are interested.

      Best Regards,
      Todor

      P.S. What is a good Serbian ASD focused group?

      Delete
    4. The best FB group overall in the world is Rogue Recovery. I think its best if you find me in fb, my full name is Tatjana Peskir.

      Delete
    5. Hi Tatjana,

      I am actually already a member of Rogue Recovery, and several of the other more popular and active biomedical groups already. More of a fly on the wall than a poster kind of a member, but have been lurking for quite some time.
      To me, the issue with these types of groups is they are short on information when it comes to what and how things can be done outside of the USA.

      I will find you and contact you there, if you don't mind.

      Thanks,
      Todor

      Delete
  3. Hi Peter

    I did suspect that sadly about access via the NHS in the UK, I also understand why one would want to keep quiet to them about treating autism pharmaceutically tpes.

    The NHS is a great thing until you need cutting edge treatment that only an independent doctor can offer like in the US.

    A US doctor though is out of the question for financial reasons, they charge tens of thousands to fix a broken leg, let alone treat autism for an unending time period, for those with no medical insurance. A European doctor sounds more accessible maybe but still maybe expensive.

    Looks like finding a reputable online European pharmaceutical site is the way to go that doesn’t sell fake medicines, can anyone recommend one, or what to look for in terms of verifying against fakes & scams?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If you get a European doctor you can then use their prescription to buy the medicines in a normal way. The online sites that sell drugs without prescription are all breaching the rules, some work by giving an online consultation and then a prescription.

      In the US people are paying thousands of dollars for their autism doctors, but their ABA is costing 10x more.

      Contact some European doctors and ask how they charge. I have not used one, but quite normal people use them, so it cannot be so expensive.

      Delete
  4. I can give an approximation of costs for visiting dr A in Italy. His consult would be around 400e, tests he orders probably around 1200-1600 and meds would be 200ish. Flights depend and hotel would be around 250. If you went with him, you’d orobbaly be going 2-3 times a year. A skype consult is possible which costs 180 but that only makes sense after at least one visit where he is able to run tests and get an idea of the child.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Did you see dr. A? Last time when I tried to make an appointment with him it was mission impossible. Maybe considering the Covid restrictions of travel, he also switched to Zoom consultations?

      Delete
    2. I have seen him several times. He does Skype meetings anyways but for a first time visit this is pointless. He operates by talking to you, looking at the child and making educated guesses where he might find anomalies in tests. Then he orders many many tests (blood is drawn in his office by great people) and the amount of tests is mostly not limited by your financials (unless you give him a limit) but by the amount of blood he can take. you can do skype later on, discussing changes to the therapy or maybe doing a few more tests by yourself locally (which people in continental Europe are allowed to do if they pay themselves), but before that it makes no sense.

      Delete
  5. Some readers of this blog are treating autism on a very small budget. The more supervision you want, the more it will cost. If you live in Mexico or Brazil, you can achieve a lot without breaking the bank and without any expensive tests. The richer the country the more expensive the medical services. In less developed countries people just buy their medicines in the local pharmacy, very different to Northern Europe, North America and Australia.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Hi Peter,

    I recently stumbled upon your blog and have been reading various posts on it since.
    I am writing this message just to say thank you for your effort, this blog, and all of the information posted in it!

    Regards,
    Todor

    P.S.
    I think you've mentioned in other posts that your son does swimming as a physical activity. Aren't you concerned about water in swimming pools? It is usually heavily treated with Cl and other substances and I was wondering if that would be working against treatments involving Cl-, such as Bumetanide or Potassium Bromide...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Todor, what matters is the level of chloride inside neurons. The level of chloride outside neurons or in your blood appears not to affect the level inside neurons, this was confirmed by the researchers. This means salt in diet or chlorine in pool water is not going to cause a problem.

      Delete
    2. That makes sense. I guess I need to read up on research...

      Thanks again, Peter.

      Delete
  7. Hope (but not yet solutions) for individuals affected by NMDAr deficiencies. This includes some autism and schizophrenia:

    Consequences of NMDA receptor deficiency can be rescued in the adult brain
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-020-00859-4

    /L

    ReplyDelete
  8. Hi Peter, i have ordered my bumetanide and I'm both excited and very nervous to start administering it for my son. I have decided to start giving him ALA in the meantime. Will that interact with bumetanide or will it be fine

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Taiye, I use NAC with Bumetanide, but ALA should have a very similar effect.

      Agnieszka's guide to safely using Bumetanide is here:-

      https://drive.google.com/file/d/12OY1kOaM8QrdYE_Ln9dRTYcQP8nILJEJ/view

      Delete
  9. Peter here is some new information on Alpha-Ketoglutarate being a useful supplement for extending the life of mice:

    Press Release:

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/09/bodybuilding-supplement-promotes-healthy-aging-and-extends-life-span-least-mice

    Paper:

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/779157v1.full.pdf

    The reason I find this relevant to autism is that AKG is involved both in energy production, as well as in regulating excessive stem-cell differentiation (growth) which can be dysregulated via PTEN and mTOR problems.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Tyler, that is interesting. Bodybuilders use Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate and the trial used it in the form of a Calcium salt, CaAKG. Calcium salts can be detrimental to some people with autism, so the body building supplement actually looks better.

      Metformin is also mentioned. This is a prescription medicine but it is cheap, safe, has anti-cancer properties and might well make you live longer. It is shown to raise IQ in Fragile-X.

      As with Metformin, some people with autism may well benefit from AKG.

      Delete
    2. I have been wondering about this for a while and stumbled upon this comment. Wouldn't the Calcium in Leucovorin be of concern to some as well?

      Delete
    3. SD, yes for some people it would be an issue. It all depends how much calcium and how fast it is absorbed. There is not so much calcium in Leucovorin, compared to some other calcium containing supplements. 15mg of calcium folinate 3 times a day, may well be just fine.

      Delete
  10. https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/09/joseph-mercola/fda-wants-to-ban-nac-now-that-it-combats-covid-19/

    Yikes. It is these kind of heavy-handed approaches where you are not sure if the reasoning is "we are the government and we know what is best for you" or else "we are going to ban anything that competes with big-pharma drugs" gives you cognitive dissonance because you are not sure if it is government bureaucrat arrogance and ignorance, or else pure corruption. Either way, this is bad if true.

    I used to use Picamilon early on with my son as the number of safe GABAergics that are not in the benzo class is pretty slim. It was suggested by others that the FDA banned Picamilon because the Senator from Missouri at the time (Claire McCaskill) had half or more of her campaign donations from pharmaceutical companies and the middlemen drug companies like Express Scripts, who were upset because they thought they had a blockbuster Alzheimer's drug on the way and that Picamilon showed some help in dealing with general cognitive decline in the elderly (which would harm their profits).

    The source for this info on NAC is from a right-leaning blogsite so the assertion that NAC is being attacked by the FDA so as to clear out all of the competition from drugs and vaccines for big-pharma is a broad claim, nevertheless the FDA is one of the most politicized federal agencies and there is just about nothing they do without some powerful government congressman or administration official pushing things along.

    It is also strange considering the current administration just liberalized drug imports from foreign countries (such as Canada) in an effort to reduce the ridiculous prices Americans pay for drugs, relative to the rest of the world. I guess we will see what happens, but considering how popular NAC is compared to Picamilon, if there is a real attack on NAC by the FDA it is unlikely it happens all at once. Then again, the drug companies are putting all their chips into getting Biden elected at the moment so if that happens you might actually see supplements treated the way they are in the EU where even simple vitamins require a prescription from a doctor.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Tyler, yes I know that the FDA has been contacting some companies using NAC in their products. A reader sent me some information on this and asked about freezing it to prolong its shelf life.

      Time to stock up on NAC. The better versions should keep for 2 years.

      The good news, from our reader Lisa, is that Bumetanide (Miccil) is again available in Mexico and I know that some parents in the US have been buying Miccil.

      Delete
  11. Peter have seen latest bumetanide trial re socialbilty. Would interested in thoughts on the study any call outs you might see.

    https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/bumetanide-may-benefit-only-a-subset-of-autistic-children/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I actually agree that only a subset of people with autism will benefit from Bumetanide; but it is a sizable subset.

      In the Dutch study they used children with higher IQ and probably less autism than in the French studies.

      I think in children with severe autism, at least 40% will be major responders. There are many biological issues, beyond those partially reversed by bumetanide, that will lead to an autism diagnosis.

      I doubt Greta Thunberg would benefit from Bumetanide.

      Rather than develop a complex test via an EEG to predict who is a likely responder, as suggested by the Dutch, it would seem much simpler/cheaper to just spend $10 or Eur 10 and make a short trial of the drug.

      Delete

Post a comment