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Saturday 13 November 2021

From PANS to PANDAS? Another Problem Solved

 

Source: EpiphanyASD

 

There is a lot written about PANS (Pediatric Acute-onset Neuropsychiatric Syndrome) and PANDAS (Pediatric Autoimmune Neuropsychiatric Disorders Associated with Streptococcal Infections) which is a subset of PANS; however they are still not fully recognized as medical conditions.

I prefer to see PANS/PANDAS in the broader context of autoimmune encephalitis, a collection of related conditions in which the body's immune system mistakenly attacks the brain, causing inflammation. The immune system produces antibodies that mistakenly attack heathy receptors in the brain.  Depending on which types of receptors are targeted, you will get different symptoms, plus you will get symptoms from the inflammation.

If they are NMDA receptors, you may have hallucinations and appear to have developed schizophrenia overnight.

It has been suggested that the definition of PANS is too narrow and a broader term called CANS was proposed.  CANS is not exactly the same as PANS.  PANS is the popular term in the US.

“A 2011 paper by Singer proposed a new, "broader concept o childhood acute neuropsychiatric symptoms (CANS)", removing some of the PANDAS criteria in favor or requiring only acute-onset. Singer said there were "numerous causes for CANS", which was proposed because of the "inconclusive and conflicting scientific support" for PANDAS, including "strong evidence suggesting the absence of an important role for GABHS, a failure to apply published [PANDAS] criteria, and a lack of scientific support for proposed therapies".

Moving from PANDAS to CANS (pay-walled)

I do not see why the focus is always on children, because we know that adults can also be affected.

In children and adults with autism it seems that quite often they may suddenly develop verbal or motor tics, as the obvious symptom of autoimmune encephalitis.  These tics gradually disappear when treated with a short course of oral steroids.

One point emphasized by the likes of Susan Swedo, at the US National Institute of Mental Health, is that PANS/PANDAS is not autism.

Non-autistic children can develop PANS/PANDAS, but so can autistic people.

A non-autistic child with untreated PANS/PANDAS would appear to most people as autistic, so similar are the symptoms.

An adult with NMDA receptors encephalitis will very likely be diagnosed as schizophrenic.

The autistic person who develops PANS/PANDAS appears like an autistic person who has encountered a regression. Many of the symptoms of PANS/PANDAS are common symptoms of autism, so the onset of PANS/PANDAS may just look like the already present symptoms have gotten worse.

Susan Swedo has commented that there is nothing to suggest PANS/PANDAS is more common in children with autism. She states that PANS/PANDAS is a condition of onset in early childhood, which is likely to reoccur when re-exposed to the same trigger, but reoccurrence is much less of a risk after 21 years old.

I think most cases of PANS/PANDAS in people with severe autism are never diagnosed and so never treated.  It is just put down as an autistic regression.  How many of those adults with severe autism and extremely challenging behaviors fall into this category?  Given the enormous cost, up to half a million dollars a year, to house this type of person in a care facility with 24-hour support, you would think a little bit more effort should be given to early diagnosis and treatment.

 

A Sceptical World

One of our neurologist readers commented in this blog about how she successfully treated her child’s PANS episode, even though in her country PANS does not exist as a diagnosis and her colleagues at work had no idea how to treat it. Quick intervention required only minor treatment.

In some countries with free universal healthcare, you only get to diagnose and treat PANS if you go outside that system and pay extra.

In the US there are some pretty expensive tests proposed for PANS and CANS.

In mainstream medicine PANS/PANDAS are not generally accepted as conditions and yet Stanford University has had a PANS/PANDAS clinic for a decade.

https://med.stanford.edu/pans/about.html

 

Time for detective work

 



The usual issue I have to manage in spring/summer is what I call summertime raging and dumber in the summer.  Note that a cognitive regression is a very common symptom of PANS/PANDAS.

My solution to summertime raging and dumber in the summer revolves around allergy, mast cells and reducing pro-inflammatory cytokines.

This year some new symptoms developed after summer:

·        Sensory amplification, in the form of sound sensitivity

·        Clinginess to Mum/Mom and separation anxiety

·        Hair twirling, using fingers to twist hair

·        Nail picking, the medical term is Onychotillomania

·        General anxiety

·        Increased urinary frequency, not due to a UTI (urinary tract infection)

·        Aggression and reactive rage (as opposed to predatory rage)

·        Mood disorder, crying for no apparent reason at school and home 

All the above symptoms can be passed off as autism.

Sound sensitivity is a common problem in autism, but Monty was getting so sensitive to sounds that he could not tolerate sitting next to someone eating at home. At school, where it is very noisy, this was not a problem.

Clinginess to Mum/Mom rather merged with the aggression and reactive rage symptoms.  Aggression is a very common problem in severe autism and it is usually directed mainly at Mum.  This time it was not just behaviors, but talking in advance about potential aggressive behaviors, this was new and got worse and worse.

Hair twirling has occurred before and is a common expression of anxiety, which then just becomes a habit, like a stim or tic.  This was previously resolved by a haircut.  This time the short hair did not solve the issue.

Nail picking (Onychotillomania) is when use your index finger to pick at the cuticle on your thumb and end up tearing the skin. This is rather like compulsive hair pulling (Trichotillomania) which is a common feature of OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder).  NAC is used to treat Trichotillomania. 

Anxiety is nearly always an issue in all levels of autism. 

The urinary symptoms of PANS/PANDAS are something that I had not paid attention to earlier. 

We covered polydipsia, drinking too much water, in a special post. This is a big problem for some readers of this blog. 

Thirst – Too much or too little (Polydipsia and Hypodipsia) Vasopressin and Angiotensin

People taking Bumetanide for autism will drink a lot, but should do so only in the few hours after taking the therapy, not all day long.

Autistic people with polydipsia are at risk of death due to low sodium levels (hyponatremia).

Monty was drinking so much I was giving him additional sodium and potassium.

Children with autism often use toilet breaks as an escape from whatever task they have been given.  Monty’s assistant had commented on how he seemed to be trying to escape from her.

The mood disorder was very marked and on one occasion Monty cried at school; his classmates were worried about him and did their best to comfort him.  This had never happened before and there was no apparent trigger. The same thing happened at home a few times, normally in the evening.

After a gradual worsening of the above symptoms, Monty had a viral infection, and he informed us that he had a sore throat. Behaviors then got significantly worse and he had a week off school, more for the behaviours than for the mild flu-like symptoms.  Having then announced that his ear was hurting, we took him to the Ear Nose and Throat doctor. To get to see the doctor you first have to go and get a negative Covid test. The diagnosis was a mild ear infection that might not need an antibiotic, but if it got worse take the antibiotic (Cefpodoxime). This is a β-lactam antibiotic. 

We did cover the non-antibiotic properties of this class of antibiotic in a dedicated post, since many antibiotics have profound anti-inflammatory and other effects not related to killing bacteria.  You can never know with 100% certainty which effect is giving you the benefit.

 

Autism and Non-Antibiotic Properties of Common Beta-lactam Antibiotics

 

 



For anyone interested in trivia. The aerobic mold which forms the basis of this antibiotic, cephalosporin C, was found in the sea near a sewage outfall by Cagliari harbour in Sardinia, by the Italian pharmacologist Giuseppe Brotzu in July 1945. 

If you like sandy beaches like Monty, Sardinia is a great place to visit. Cagliari is in the south, the famous part of Sardinia is Costa Smeralda, on the northern coast, where the celebs go to be seen.

Since Monty’s problem was more behavioral than due to pain in his ear, we started the antibiotic without delay.

Over 5 days, the behaviors began to improve and on day 6 the hair twirling vanished entirely for a day, so clearly something new was going on in his brain.

The mood disorder switched to occasional extreme laughter/happiness, rather than the previous tears.

The behavioral regression started well before the viral infection and ear infection, so it is not just a simple case of a sore throat and a strep infection.

Are all the above symptoms due to PANS/PANDAS?

There actually is a 100% overlap between Monty’s recent symptoms and a list of possible PANS/PANDAS symptoms. Every symptom I listed is on the doctor’s checklist below: -

 

Description of PANS Symptoms

 

Description of PANS Symptoms

1) OCD

Traditional OCD presents with mild obsessions and compulsions that become more involved and burdensome over time. In traditional OCD, symptoms tend to be persistent with minor variance in symptoms (often referred to as a waxing and waning). In contrast, PANS OCD presents with a sudden onset typically from mild or no symptoms to debilitating in an abrupt amount of time. Often, parents recall the exact date of symptom onset, and frequently report “it just came on out of the blue.”

 

Many compulsions are either mental rituals (and therefore difficult to observe) or appear as extremes of an acceptable behavior (e.g., compulsive handwashing). Common OCD rituals in children include: washing/grooming, checking (locks, door), counting, ordering/symmetry, hoarding, restrictive eating, and repetitive questioning.

 

Emerging research suggests different treatment options are available for children with PANS OCD than for children with non-PANS OCD. Understanding the difference between the two forms of OCD allows appropriate interventions to be implemented.

 

2) Eating Restriction

PANS children describe various reasons for not eating normally or adequately, such as: fear of vomiting, sensitivity to taste, smell, and texture, fear food is spoiled, or fear of being poisoned. In some cases, the restricted eating is directly related to body image distortions, including concerns about being overweight (even when the child is normal weight and was previously satisfied with their body habitus.)

 

3) Anxiety

Anxiety frequently presents as constant, generalized anxiety or age-inappropriate separation anxiety.

 

4) Sensory Amplification

PANS children may become uncharacteristically and intensely bothered by smells, tastes, sounds, and textures, causing difficulties with daily routines, such as brushing teeth, riding in a car, eating, and dressing.

 

5) Motor Abnormalities

PANS children may exhibit motor and vocal tics, handwriting changes and/or clumsiness.

 

6) Behavioral Regression

PANS children may display regressed behaviors, such as: baby talk, refusal to carry out age-appropriate grooming activities, tantrums, clinginess, and/or separation anxiety.

 

7) Deterioration in School Performance

Psychological testing of children with PANDAS, a subset of PANS where strep is the infectious trigger, has found impairments on a visual-spatial recall test, on measures of executive function, and on a dexterity test. PANS children may also experience a decreased processing speed, memory issues, and/or difficulty in math and calculation.

 

8) Mood Disorder

Depression, mania, irritability, hypersexuality, emotional lability, and rage have been noted during a PANS exacerbation. Moods may change from happy to sad to angry in moments. Reactive rage (as oppose to predatory rage) may start instantaneously and stop as quickly, leaving the child remorseful and confused.

 

9) Urinary Symptoms

An initial complaint may be urinary frequency. A careful history will often expose additional symptoms. PANS children may develop polyuria (up to many times per hour), frequent urges to urinate, and/or day and night secondary enuresis. These urinary symptoms are not due to UTI, anxiety or OCD type worries.

 

10) Sleep Disturbances

Polysomnography has demonstrated a variety of sleep abnormalities in children with PANS, including initial and middle insomnia, REM behavior disorder, parasomnias, and/or sleep phase shifting. 

 

Since I did introduce the term CANS, here is a comparison of PANDAS, PANS and CANS from a recent Italian paper:- 


CANS: Childhood acute neuropsychiatric syndromes

 

Table 1 - Criteria for PANDAS, PANS, and CANS 

 

PANDAS

1. Presence of OCD and/or a tic disorder

2. Pediatric onset (Symptoms of the disorder first become evident between 3 years of age and the puberty.)

3. Episodic course of symptom severity Abrupt onset of symptoms or dramatic symptom exacerbations. Often, the onset of a specific symptom exacerbation can be assigned to a particular day or week, at which time the symptoms seemed to ‘‘explode’’ in severity. Symptoms usually decrease significantly between episodes and occasionally resolve completely between exacerbations.

4. Association with Streptococcal infection Symptom exacerbations must be temporally related to Streptococcal infection

5. Association with neurological abnormalities During symptom exacerbations, patients will have abnormal results on neurological examination. Motor hyperactivity and adventitious movements

 

PANS

1. Abrupt, dramatic onset of OCD or severely restricted food intake

2. Concurrent presence of additional neuropsychiatric symptoms, with similarly severe and acute onset, from at least two of the following seven categories

1) Anxiety

2) Emotional lability and/or depression

3) Irritability, aggression and/or severely oppositional behaviors

4) Behavioral (developmental) regression

5) Deterioration in school performance

6) Sensory or motor abnormalities

7) Somatic signs and symptoms, including sleep disturbances, enuresis or urinary frequency.

3. Symptoms are not better explained by a known neurologic or medical disorder (Such as Sydenham's chorea, systemic lupus erythematosus, Tourette disorder, or others).

  

Idiopathic CANS

Acute onset before age 18 of behavioral and motor signs encompassing

1. Primary criterion OCD

2. Secondary criteria

1) Anxiety

2) Psychosis

3) Developmental regression

4) Sensitivity to sensory stimuli

5) Emotional lability

6) Tics

7) Dysgraphia

8) Clumsiness

9) Hyperactivity

3. Mono- or polyphasic cours




Treatment

Susan Swedo advises to treat PANDAS with 3 weeks of antibiotics.

Monty’s 2 previous cases of sudden onset motor/verbal tics were resolved by 5 days of Prednisone.  This is a common therapy for a PANS flare-up.  There is a study from Stanford on its benefit.  The sooner you use this therapy, the greater the benefit.

The most important thing with all forms of autoimmune encephalitis seems to be speedy treatment so the condition does not become chronic.  Then you have to use much more invasive and expensive therapies like IVIG and Plasmapheresis.

It is clear that PANS/PANDAS is likely to reoccur.

In Monty’s case the first two instances were very similar.  They were both acute onset tics. The third instance was very different.

Given that Monty’s antibiotic very obviously had a behavioral benefit, we will follow Swedo’s advice and continue for 3 weeks, which is 2 weeks longer than the standard ear infection therapy.

The short course of Prednisone will hopefully complete the therapy and life will go back to normal.

I recall that our neurologist reader, with those sceptical colleagues, did not even need steroids to resolve her child’s problems, NSAIDs were sufficient.  The sooner you treat the symptoms, the less potent the therapy needs to be and the more effective it seems to be.  Some people commence treatment years after the symptoms emerge.

 

Conclusion

One conclusion to this post might have been along the lines of “My god, whatever next?” as if autism brings never-ending problems.

I rather see it as, why did it take me so long to recognize the symptoms?

The answer to that one is that PANS/PANDAS/CANS, or indeed the broader Autoimmune encephalitis, is a family of conditions.  Just because you saw one set of broad symptoms earlier, does not mean you will not face a different subset of symptoms next time.

The urinary symptoms of PANS were a surprise and worth highlighting.

Autistic regressions should be investigated and treated.

On the one hand, doctors, particularly in the US, do like expensive diagnostic tests.  They want certainly and often struggle to treat ill-defined conditions that they have not been taught about.  They prefer not to tinker around, in fact tinkering is frowned upon.

On the other hand, when very expensive testing is done and it identifies in someone a combination of rare genetic dysfunctions associated with autism, nobody thinks to look up each gene and see how to compensate for the usual loss of function - that does not seem to count as medicine.  The genetic diagnosis is crystal clear, but the therapy would definitely require some tinkering around, to perfect it.  But, such tinkering is so frowned upon that the “specialist” just stands well clear and moves on to the next patient.   

Tinkering around is an essential part of fixing practical problems.

In my case of autism, I have not paid $925 for the Cunningham Panel of PANS/PANDAS tests, or even a strep test, or a urine culture test.

The cost of treating the 2 apparent PANS episodes in previous years was about $5 dollars each time.  The cost of the current episode was more, about $15, plus the cost of a visit to the ENT doctor and the required Covid test.  Our neurologist reader likely spent even less for her NSAIDs.

PANDAS, PANS, CANS or just autoimmune encephalopathy, it does not really matter what you call it, prompt intervention will likely resolve the symptoms.





 

67 comments:

  1. Autoimmune encephalopathy: could epileptiform abnormality of eeg (without visible seizures) be a sign of it?
    carla marta

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    Replies
    1. Classic Autoimmune Encephalitis often features seizures. I think we are talking about a milder version, so it might well feature eleptiform abnormality.

      Delete
  2. Dear Peter,
    I have to say I disagree with this. The first episode of Pans we had was, since like in your case it was connected to a clear infection, treated with 15 days of antibiotics. Well thats not three weeks yet its not bad either. This did not help. The condition was greatly improved by a combination of allergy meds, ibuprofen and antibiotics a few months down the road. this therapy lasted for months. Was stopped, with pans coming back stronger than ever. long story short, the only thing that made it go away to a good degree is IVIG. A lot of people I know in various Pans groups got antibiotics or steroids early on and that did not help long term. A problem we have individually is that our most probable trigger is reactivation of EBV, which you’ll get very often if your immune system is generally disregulated. So we actually carry our Pans with us.
    Recent use of Mirokrom and Galavit has been a huge help. Even so much that our daughter who is usually superhappy to go for her monthly IVIG was like ‘meh, its ok, I guess?’ when the last one came on. Dr Shlyapnikov from Russia stipulated that an inborn error with lower Iga and mast cell problems are overtaxing one part of her immune system, making the other part weaker. Then the ebv would reactivate and the cycle would start again. Thank God somebody is like you say, tinkering around instead of putting labels on her and thats that.
    Pans now has an ICD code. We apparently live in a world where medicine has become religion and doctors can choose which ICD code they ‘believe in’ and which they dont.
    On Marthas question, all neurologists I saw so far say they have yet to meet a child with autism that does not have ‘subclinical epileptiform abnormalities’ on an EEG.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Hi, is there anyone who has tried Zoloft or ABILIFY for autism? And what reactions did he have? I ask you because we want to try for Denis too and we don't know if we are doing good or bad .....

    ReplyDelete
  4. HI Peter, my thoughts are with your efforts to find the treatment again. How could you, or anyone, predict the progression of any case of ASD if there have been no symptoms? It seems this onset was again acute. I think Monty is at one of the best hands he can find on earth in identifying the issues and finding a n+1 solution.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Hello Peter, thank you for this blog you are doing a lot of people a huge service. Our son is 2y9m and our speech therapist thinks he is on the spectrum. He was born hypoxic and then had sepsis when 12 days old and was on an antibiotic drip and oxygen for 5 nights (scary). For the first year after that his stomach was ruined and he had "toddler diarrhea" until 18 months. Once we removed eggs and milk his stools normalised and since I have been focussing heavily on his diet. In simple terms, inulin heavy prebiotics a few times a week (Jerusalem artichoke patties I freeze down & leek and potato soup), with probiotics in the form of unpasteurised goats cheese and kombucha. We live in Bristol and our local farmers market has been selling good quality Lions Mane mushroom for a year or so now. I remember a previous post where you were concerned about quality of this item. I recommend these guys if you are anywhere near Bristol https://bristolfungarium.com/

    I've also added bee pollen a few days a week to try and increase CAPE. He is still young so I'm wary of medicating yet but so grateful to have found your blog and to know that there are options available for us to try. Thank you again. Loza

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hello Loza, Lions Mane mushrooms have been used for centuries and only recently was it found that they promote levels of NGF (nerve growth factor). Are you using the mushroom itself or the tincture they are selling? It is also good to suggest any older relatives try it, it may well help brains keep sharp in old age.

      The problem with the cheap powder supplement of Lions Mane is what else is in the powder. It seems to be easily contaminated. The fresh product, or the ethanol tincture would seem a much better idea.

      Both hypoxia during birth and sepsis very early in life do seem to be associated with autism symptoms later on. It is really a question of the severity of the symptoms.

      Some people whose problems seem to follow from hypoxia during birth seem to benefit from therapies targeting this, even years later. This may just be coincidence, at first I thought it sounded odd, but maybe it is not.

      Sepsis and the required treatment is going to affect the immune system and its calibration. The baby's immune system is "trained" before and shortly after birth by the exposure it gets to various insults. A big shock and then loss of much of the GI microbiome will have an effect.

      This is why you do not want to shield pregnant women and tiny babies from all bacteria; domestic animal exposure reduces future asthma and allergies for example. Nearly 3 years old may be a little late, but having your son play with friendly dogs and be around farmyard animals is not a bad idea and is also a fun activity for him.

      If your sons symptoms do not resolve as he gets bigger, you could look at the experiences of people whose child experienced hypoxia or sepsis, this might provide useful pointers.

      Delete
    2. Thanks Peter,

      Yes we are getting fresh mushrooms (they don't last more than a 3 to 4 days in the fridge after purchase, I think due to the surface area involved). They taste good but not good enough for a 2 year old so I blitz them into a pasta sauce!

      We had a follow up meeting with the hospital to discuss why we weren't offered hyperbaric but were given the brush off. I will read up on it as TPES has described below.

      Having read your blog over the past year it is reassuring to hear your thoughts that these two events are significant influencers. It was a rough start for him unfortunately and he has been behind since, at the same time he is making slow continual progress so who knows what the future holds. Your blog is by far the most useful resource I have found and I want to influence the "environmental" factors as much as possible in these early years.

      Thanks again, Loza

      Delete
  6. A woman I know very well has done stem cell treatments for her child who suffered hypoxia when he was several years old, due to his heart stopping because of an inborn error. They have helped a lot, as has a hyperbaric chamber. He is now 80-90 percent recovered. She used donor cord blood.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you tpes. Good to hear this and something I will start to follow up.

      Delete
    2. Her name is Svetlana Serigny. She will gladly talk to you and have much more concrete information than I do.

      Delete
  7. Hi Peter..
    Have you seen this paper ? https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00221-021-06254-x

    6BIO may be helpful because it may restore GABA signalling..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Jenny, thank you. I was recently reading this paper. It is a follow up to an earler study on KCC2 that I wrote about. I was thinking about making a post on this subject.

      Delete
    2. Thank you Peter! Would appreciate any insight you have on it. Its a mouse study but the wordings seem promising like it could restore GABA functioning even into adulthood. Hopefully that means what I think it means. A suramin like hope for the future for children like mine who are now teens.

      Delete
    3. Jenny, you do not have to wait for the 6BIO research to eventually lead to an approved drug.

      6BIO works by increasing the flow of chloride out of neurons and so normalizing the level of chloride. This then corrects the defective functioning of GABA.

      In my son I use Bumetanide to reduce the flow of chloride into neurons.

      6BIO is another way to solve the very same defect. Maybe 6BIO would be more potent, we do not really know. Bumetanide is available now, for those with this specific defect.

      Delete
    4. Hi, can you say what is 6 BIO?? Thank you very much

      Delete
    5. Tamara, 6 BIO (6-bromoindirubin-3′-oxime) is a synthetic derivative, of a natural product 6-bromoindirubin, which is the pigment “Tyrian purple”, made famous by the Phoenicians 2 thousand years ago.

      It was made from sea snails, but was ultra-expensive, due to the vast number of snails needed.

      This class of synthetic compounds are GSK-3-selective inhibitors and have some profoundly beneficial medical properties. There is no product sold for humans yet.

      Delete
    6. Thank you Peter! It definitely sounded like a bumetanide like drug in terms of its effects.

      Delete
  8. Good morning friends, I would like to know a little more about autism due to the dysregulated immune system, my son shares characteristics with some individuals in this blog and it is difficult for me to know which way to go, the NAC and verepamil have been very good, but he seems to lose its effect.
    Some of the most difficult symptoms to control are itching and redness, especially in the feet, hands and ears.
    If you have something that can help me I thank you

    Melisa

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This sounds like allergy - it is possible to have an allergic reaction to NAC.
      ~Tanya

      Delete
  9. https://www.scivisionpub.com/pdfs/autism-blood-types-and-vaccines-1005.pdf
    stumbled upon this absolute gem of a paper - the proposed mechanism, while it could be completely wrong, is worthy of an analysis. A small review of affected families I know gave a 100 percent confirmation, all kids are diff blood type to mother.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Hi, Peter I recently came across a video of a doctor replacing predinsolon with high doses of vitamin D3 and K2, what do you think it is possible to replace? I forgot to let you know with Zoloft, administered for a week but without any improvement only stomach pain and more agitation. This is the movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSwhSam_hLU

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dragos, he is not a medical doctor (MD), he is a chiropractor (DC), in the US they use the prefix Dr, which is confusing to non-Americans.

      Oral steroids are potent drugs that can be highly beneficial, but long term use will cause side effects.

      Vitamin D3 at high doses will raise the level of calcium in your blood, which might be desirable or might be very damaging. Some people with autism experience very negative reactions to calcium supplements and due to the fundamental role of calcium signaling in the brain, it is not surprising that raising the level of calcium in your blood could have unexpected negative consequences.

      High dose vitamin D3 may well have beneficial effects in some people, but I doubt it really is a steroid replacement.

      Delete
  11. Hello Peter
    I am not sure my son got pans flare ups
    But when he get moody, anxiety and start crying for no reason

    We give pentoxfline and it works great
    And good affect last for like 3 to 4 months

    We did not find any problems with urine culture test

    Do you think Prednisone might work better

    And Thank you for your service.


    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Riza, you could treat as a PANS flare up and see if there is a benefit. They suggest 1-2 mg/kg, with a maximum of 60 mg, for 5 days. It is called a steroid burst. It is best given first thing in the morning, not to interfere with the body's own hormone release.

      Delete
  12. Hello, I want to let you know that we are ok on this treatment scheme: verapamil 40 mg 2 times a day, liverlover bioray 2-4 ml, bacoflen 10mg * 2 (it is more present, emotional and on the tongue, bacoflen every day administered we see many improvements), probiotic plantarum 299v, digestive enzymes. I ask you once again is someone who can write us a recipe with suramin nasal spray (exactly the quantity and excipients), we want to produce it in Bucharest by a private laboratory. Whoever wants to help us, can find us on whatsApp "WE FIGHT WITH AUTISM "and join us if we are more maybe we can succeed .... thank you

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Dragos can yuo add me i think i need tge link to get in yuo can pm on messanger Francesco Mazzilli thanks

      Delete
    2. Sudhakar Vankamamidi20 April 2023 at 23:45

      Please add me too sudhakarvm@gmail.com

      Delete
    3. Can you add me too? denisa_bercuci2000@yahoo.com

      Delete
    4. Can baclofen induce schizophrenia? I tried this for a while and seeing things in the corner of the room, which scared me , but i see some good things too with my son.

      Delete
    5. Baclofen can cause hallucinations. It is a listed possible side effect, more common in elderly people.

      Delete
  13. Hello again, I continue to insist with my son with autism, I do not give up
    The truth is I am in no way knowledgeable about the broad scientific world of autism.

    I want to consult you my dear Peter, some children including my son feel extreme itching in his body, why is it, how can we counteract this

    Grateful

    Melisa

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Melisa,itching can be caused by atopic dermatitis, which is very common in autism. This is an auto-immune condition that may well respond to mast cell stabilizers like Ketotifen and Cromolyn Sodium. There are other causes of itching.

      Delete
  14. Dear Peter,

    My son used to talk excessively / non-stop when he was little, and now again, off and on, since the last two years (he is 19 now). Sometimes he sounds like he has tourettes and also stutters.

    Is there any drug / supplement to stop this?

    Once my Osteopath gave liver herbs which done the trick.

    It normally happens after a PANS flair up, but I have already given him 3 weeks antibiotics.

    His allergic throat mucous is back.

    I already give Dymista + Cetirizine for this but it is not helping.

    Verapamil and Montelukast was no use.
    NAC has no noticeable effects.

    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If the osteopath solved the problem previously, I would try the same therapy again.

      Stutters are quite common in autism and have many possible causes. If there are also verbal tics like in Tourette’s, that should help to narrow down the cause.

      If you are seeing Dr Antonucci, I would write down very clearly all the symptoms and ask him.

      It would be good to know if this all relates to PANS or not. If the problem really is PANS, then you probably need a more potent PANS therapy like IVIG, but if it is not PANS then there is no point thinking about IVIG.

      Delete
  15. He suggested Thymosin alpha 1 shots, if that does not help then clonazepan. And if that doesn’t help quetiapine. I want to try the Bumetanide when his behaviour is more stable? I am convinced this is allergy related as a lot of phlegm is coming out. I have seen very similar behaviour when he was much younger and it came back last year after gi problems and year before in the summer with pollen allergy. Prednisone doesn’t work not does ibuprofen.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If it is allergy related, cromolyn sodium tablets may well help. It is a mast cell stabilizer that helps with many aspects of allergy including GI problems.

      Delete
    2. Hi. Did you try TA1 shots?

      Delete
  16. Can I give the eye drops, or would I need to give in tablet form?

    ReplyDelete
  17. Hello Peter, when you give antibiotics an Prednisone, do you stop the other interventions?

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    Replies
    1. Lisa, only once did I also give antibiotics and there was a diagnosed ear infection on that occasion. So in most cases I just added the Prednisone to the existing therapies. There have never been any side effects.

      The standard therapy is 5 days. Longer term use requires you to gradually taper/reduce the dose and eventually you will definitely get some side effects.

      Delete
    2. Thank you for your reply Peter.

      Delete
  18. Hi, I can't find the comment, what exactly did she treat Pans with: "One of our neurologist readers commented in this blog about how she successfully treated her child's PANS episode, even though in her country PANS does not exist as a diagnosis and her colleagues at work had no idea how to treat it. Quick intervention required only minor treatment."

    ReplyDelete
  19. Sudhakar Vankamamidi21 April 2023 at 17:53

    Hi Peter, my son is undergoing PANDAS flare, here it is hot summer. May be got this from food, not sure. We started this antibiotic https://www.1mg.com/drugs/cepodem-200-tablet-68992 hope it is the correct Cefpodoxime. As we get Cefpodoxime Proxetil here in India, google says it gets converted Cefpodoxime so hoping we are good. We are using this twice a day and planning to do 3 week course. Can we start prednisone now or should wait for antibiotic course to complete. Also using ibugesic to handle anxiety otherwise he wants whole day in car otherwise gets may be headache or extreme anxiety and does SIB. Any suggestions or tweaks you recommend please. We have autism aware Dr consultation tomorrow. We are giving his tolerated probiotics to compensate the loss. Its 3rd day with still problems. Always Thankful Sudhakar

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That is one of the recommended antibiotics. I think people often take the older types like azithromycine or a penicillin. See what your doctor says. You would expect to take prednisone straight away if it is PANDAS.

      Delete
  20. Sudhakar Vankamamidi21 April 2023 at 19:40

    Hi Peter, one more question, we are getting prednisolone instead of prednisone. Google says former is better, can we use it. https://www.1mg.com/drugs/wysolone-20-tablet-dt-341105

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Your body converts prednisone into prednisolone. For most people the two drugs will have an identical effect.

      Delete
  21. Sudhakar Vankamamidi21 April 2023 at 21:37

    Thank you so much Peter.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Sudhakar Vankamamidi21 April 2023 at 23:15

    Dear Peter, this article https://www.drugs.com/dosage/prednisolone.html#Dose_Adjustments says prednisone results in Drug-induced adrenocortical insufficiency may persist for up to 12 months after drug discontinuation. Does this applies to short term use or applicable only for long term users. We are thinking to start low may be 10mg, will it be useful or may cause more damage. Thanks in advance. Sudhakar

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You should follow the doctor's advice for treating PANDAS. The reason for taking steroids early in the morning is to minimize the effect on your natural production. Oral steroids are potent and will have side effects. Taken short term they can be highly effective without problems.

      Delete
  23. Sudhakar Vankamamidi22 April 2023 at 12:22

    If we use prednisone, may be we have to stop ibuprofen, so 6 hrs gap between them should be fine right. Our Dr indicating that prednisone is also combined with rapamycin. If its viral season he was hesitant to use prednisone because of new infections. Unfortunately he was from different location than ours.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Sudhakar Vankamamidi22 April 2023 at 22:01

    Dear Peter, in an fb group several parents shared that prednisone reduced adrenal and resulted in sever aggression etc. Can you share your thoughts please. Thanks Sudhakar

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thus is another question better for your doctor than Facebook.

      Steroids are potent drugs, known to have side effects. If used correctly they are extremely beneficial.

      Sudden onset "weird" behaviors in some people with autism can be made to dissappear in a few days with steroid treatment. If you modify the body's immune response you may trigger aggression in some people. We saw this with Biogaia Gastrus, it halted SIB in some people but triggered it in others.

      Read up on the standard treatments for PANS and PANDAS on the mainstream websites.

      Delete
  25. Sudhakar Vankamamidi23 April 2023 at 22:34

    We are doing with 10 days Cefpodoxime antibiotic course as per Rx and using brufen for inflammation. Homeopathic Strep remidy seems to be helpful.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Sudhakar Vankamamidi28 May 2023 at 00:22

    Mainstream hospitals unfortunately don't understand pans pandas and dont know how treat. Sharing our recent experience. Under flare we have been to number 1 psychology dept in our city. They gave lorazepam, i think it has SSRI feature. It cant increase brain serotonin but side effect was kid loosing balance while standing and walking. So anxiety is not solved and now kid may fall during ocd routines like while going to toilet. Pans fix so far we understood is, address pathogen if present, in our case it was cold and cough so used antibiotic. Plus resiperidone helped. Our practitioner recommended 25mg 5HTP with b6 p5p 17mg. After antibiotics our practioner recommended 1/4th goldenseal and suitable probiotics.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Is there anyone else with Pans? How did you treat it apart from Prednisone, which I think only treats the inflammation, but Pans is also caused by various viruses, what treatment scheme did you follow? Mine has symptoms, it responded well to Prednisone but the symptoms always reappear after some time, because we do not treat the cause, which is difficult to detect.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Ibuprofen around the clock usually gets the inflammation down. Furthermore, antibiotics can contribute to the inflammation. I like to counteract the neurotoxins release after an antibiotics dose with verapamil.

    ReplyDelete
  29. I don't know if this observation has any importance in my child, but when I was admitted to the hospital and he was doing infusions with sodium chloride, it was as if he became a different child, attentive, quiet. Do you have any idea what it could mean? It is not a coincidence that this happened at every admission.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The infusion will hydrate him and increase his level of Na+ and Cl-

      Maybe he is dehydrated or perhaps his electrolytes are disturbed.

      Maybe do a blood test and check electrolytes. Measure how much he drinks a day, maybe it is not enough.

      Some people with autism drink too much fluids, while another group drink too little. You can get kids to drink more water. Some like cold water, some like water dispensers or just use a larger glass or cup than currently used.

      Delete
    2. Hi Denise, about a year ago my son had to undergo a sedated MRI as he lost his speech and some other skills so we had him do an MRI, lumbar puncture, and overnight EEG under sedation (other than the overnight EEG) when he woke up his words were back and for a couple weeks, he was more alert than he’d been in months. I believe the IV fluids were the reason for this profound yet transient improvement.

      Delete
    3. Electrolytes are at normal level

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    4. In your pharmacy they sell rehydration powder which you add to a glass of water and then drink slowly.
      This is similar to having a saline drip in hospital.
      See if this provides a similar positive effect.

      Delete
    5. Do you know the name of the sedation drug? If its Propofol it is pretty remarkable.

      Propofol (2,6-diisopropylphenol) is a widely used intravenous anesthetic that acts by enhancing GABAergic inhibitory activity in the brain. Propofol can directly activate the GABAA receptor or, when coapplied with GABA or other agonists, potentiate the response to the transmitter (Hales and Lambert, 1991).

      Delete
    6. Yes, it was propafol. I had major concerns as I’d heard it can damage mitochondria but he came out of that procedure a completely different child. We went out to dinner two days later and he sat in his chair and ate and was doing amazing. Unfortunately, he slowly returned back to current state. Any ideas on how to simulate the propafol effect? I’ve heard GABA supplements don’t cross the BBB.

      Delete

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